Now I'm up to the bear hug, which was the most delightful and unexpected scene. Then Karla shows up in the slum and says poverty looks good on him, and if he slipped any lower he'd be irresistible. Lin has that perfect humility but also doesn't disappoint in doing the right thing, the bold thing that the situation requires. I see why the cheeky Prabaker is your favorite character. His lines are priceless.
Last night I read to the part where Karla kisses him and leaves, and he does the happy dance that the kids peeking through the walls imitate. I decided to stop reading there and savor that moment for a night.
Over mussels in my favorite restaurant in the world, here in my Appalachian town, I read about the Village in the Sky. But then a woman named Doll and a DJ from Belize talked to me, and it turned out his mom, who died when he was 14, was born the same year as me. And that turned into another miracle conversation, with which my life seems to be replete.
So here's what I wanted to tell you. I know we've disagreed about this Jesus guy but Lin is how I imagine the Christ. He sees the good in everyone. He doesn't judge. I think the Christ is the one who sees the Christ in others. Even those who attack him on the road he sees as himself, when he robbed others. He doesn't blame them.
It's how I imagine Judas the Nazarene, who gave a whole country the faith in themselves and each other to stand up to the Romans. If I didn't think the Christ was real, I wouldn't bother arguing with people about Jesus. If you take away the projection of your own goodness onto Jesus, and read what he actually says, could you imagine someone as kind and perceptive as Lin doing the same?
I will keep coming back and putting my impressions here, so we can lure more people into reading this exquisite book. I've noted that he ends each chapter with a crescendo. (I almost put 'of innuendo' and remembered Karla's description of Didier as so shallow he could only manage a single entendre ;-)
The end of Part I, when he talks about the slum 'enfolding his life within its dreams, as gently and completely as a swollen tide closes over a stone that stands upon its shore.'
I love Didier's description that 'When the wish and the fear are the same, we call the dream a nightmare.'
And then Khaderbhai saying, 'Nothing exists as we see it. Nothing we see is reality. Our eyes are liars. Everything that seems real, is merely part of the illusion. Nothing exists as we think it does. Not you. Not me. Not this room. Nothing.'
And after, 'The truth is that there are no good men, or bad men. It is the deeds that have goodness or badness in them ... The truth is that an instant of real love, in the heart of anyone--the noblest man alive or the most wicked--has the whole purpose and process and meaning of life within the lotus-folds of its passion. The truth is that we are all, every one of us, every atom, every galaxy, and every particle of matter in the universe, moving toward God.'
Wow. I knew I would like this from the author photo--I could read his open face like a book. But the music of the language ... that was an ambush.
I’m so glad this book is giving you a pleasurable break from rebuilding empires. When I read it I wasn’t in the habit of having pencil in hand, so thanks for reminding me of those exquisite passages.
I’m sure it won’t spoil anything if I jump ahead to page 480 where Khader repeats that theme:
"The universe," he [Khader] continued, "this universe that we know, began in almost absolute simplicity, and it has been getting more complex for about fifteen billion years. In another billion years it will be still more complex than it is now. In five billion, in ten billion -- it is always getting more complex. It is moving toward...something. It is moving toward some kind of ultimate complexity. We might not get there. An atom of hydrogen might not get there, or a leaf, or a man, or a planet might not get there, to that ultimate complexity. But we are all moving towards it -- everything in the universe is moving towards it. And that final complexity, that thing we are all moving to, is what I choose to call God. If you don't like that word, God, call it the Ultimate Complexity. Whatever you call it, the whole universe is moving toward it."
And at the end of Chapter Thirty-Four (page 739-740):
“The anger in me was as hard and heavy as a basalt hearthstone, and I knew it would take years to wear down, but I couldn’t hate them.”
“They’d lied to me and betrayed me, leaving jagged edges where all my trust had been, and I didn’t like or respect or admire them any more, but still I loved them. I had no choice. I understood that, perfectly, standing in the white wilderness of snow. You can’t kill love. You can’t even kill it with hate. You can kill in-love, and loving, and even loveliness. You can kill them all, or numb them into dense, leaden regret, but you can’t kill love itself. Love is the passionate search for a truth other than your own, and once you feel it, honestly and completely, love is forever. Every act of love, every moment of the heart reaching out, is part of the universal good: it’s part of God, or what we call God, and it can never die.“
I'm glad for the context of these beautiful lines from the book: "Love is the passionate search for a truth other than your own, and once you feel it, honestly and completely, love is forever. Every act of love, every moment of the heart reaching out, is part of the universal good: it’s part of God, or what we call God, and it can never die."
It's what I was trying, in a far more clumsy way, to say with my episode "To love me is to know me." Love isn't a mushy feel-good thing. It's more confrontational than just being nice to someone when you disagree, which is really a hidden way of judging yourself superior to them.
Love sees the other person as an equal, a way of completing you, and is relentless in going after that truth in them. It's the act of reaching out, even just in your mind, to give them the benefit of the doubt. It is God.
Is God the ultimate complexity? Only if the simplicity to complexity continuum is an incomplete circle, not a line. I've thought this about all dichotomies: male/ female, introvert/ extrovert. Somewhere beyond the end point is the place where the extremes meet, which is opposite the 'compromise point' of 'not either, really.'
I love that you're giving me the opportunity to talk about this realm of ideas. And what a great foil to reflect ideas Gregory is! And you are!
I've now gotten to the falling out after 'rescuing' Lisa from the brothel. I was glad that I'd paused to savor that kiss. I think the next moment of innocence may be a long time coming, if it does.
But I like that Roberts gives some resolution to scenes before throwing them all back into turmoil. He doesn't always leave you hanging, like spicy food where you have to take the next bite to quench the fire of the last, but it only gives a momentary reprieve. He allows the reader some relent, but I have a feeling that's all over for awhile. From your hints, there are lice and betrayal in my future! Yikes!
Thanks for that feedback, Vagabond. We need the distraction of quality 'comfort reading' like this from time to time. I enjoyed revisiting the book via the Study Guide (Synopsis and Analysis) and am appreciating Tereza's running feedback.
I opened Shantaram when the plane left the ground. I knew I was in good hands when I saw the Pat Conroy blurb, but I sometimes think he wraps a dire reality in lush language and nudges us toward the cliff. I'd already read the intro, thanks to you, but anyone can write a zinger of a first page (well, not anyone, but you know what I mean.)
So I didn't fully fall in love until the phrase "the umbilical corridor." And then the smell of Bombay, the smell of hope that's the opposite of hate, and the smell of greed that's the opposite of love. The repartee between Lin and Karla, his description of her eyes. The way he changes his way of seeing the people in the slums.
It's just gorgeous. I've thought before that men can't write romance but he's changing my mind. And I have two more hours to Tampa where I will be enraptured and rapt.
Ordered! This is going to seriously hurt my productivity. The first victim was a kabocha squash that roasted to a slight char while I was enraptured by the chapter synopses. But how could I resist? The story line, the lush language, the opening scene with the choice to forgive or hate as freedom in a universe of possibility ... what a line after my own heart.
At least I won't need to pack a library for my upcoming three-week trip. One book will do, since I don't read like a Skoolafish ;-)
Have to disagree here JS. Having been to India 20 plus times and stayed around the Queen Victoria India arch gates monument wharf and Colloba...most of what this moron writes is autobio-fiction.
His trivialization of and western arrogance to Indian people is breathtaking.
His mocking post colonialist neo artistic colonialist mentality is vacuous at best for he learns nothing from its part Aryan Indian civilization.
I read 80 pages and threw it in the bin for I could feel it was not genuine.
If a bank robber comes out of nowhere and writes a blockbuster then movie follows you gotta ask how n' why.
Well I certainly defer to your experience, G. Nevertheless, I found that Roberts portrayed the (less fortunate) humble native Indian people through Prabaker and his village family in a very positive and heart-warming light. His portrayal of the contrast between the slum dwellers and the opulence of the ritualistic World Trade Centre project was particularly poignant (I could only think of 911). Otherwise, the events and experiences throughout the book were riveting.
There are many terrific thoughtful aphorisms on a wide range of aspects of life – suffering, loyalty, honour, love et cetera.
Maybe there were some subtle/subliminal geopolitical and social messages I did not pick up.
Yes I get that his portrayal of interactions with the poor are portrayed as if he cares. But I sensed that he is merely playing the white western saviour over again. The books targeted at western feel good or the “missionary mentality”.
Like mother Theresa it was a crusade to save the native while portraying Indians as savages, uncaring and unprincipled. And that's not all incorrect, some are. Others are not. Yes life is tough in India but Indians know that from day one. That's why they aren't seen sitting around in the west sipping latte or boozing. They seized wealth if they get a chance sometimes shallowly.
Indian people are very accommodating especially the poorer. The premise that a white man from a land seeded by the most debased, degraded convict unfortunates brutalized by the City of London establishment has any place in India trying to uplift the natives is obscene.
Only Indians can help themselves in the long run if they are to break the caste poverty trap and post monarch capitalist East India company debt corporate / political enslavement and reclaim their agricultural base from Monsanto,Bayer, Brook Bonds, Lipton's etc….it may happen.
How? by decoupling from the IBS banking techno.cartel largely influenced by Rothschild who is, was Dutch then British Easy India Co. Then take back and nationalising their country and preserving their Aryan based culture.
Maybe I'm too hard on the guy and biased but who knows that's my take.
I can’t argue with anything you say here, G. I just don’t see that message coming out in Shantaram. Lin (Roberts) goes there as a broken man, not a saviour; he learns from and is uplifted by the nobility of all the people he meets – Prabaker his best friend, Abdullah his brother and Khader his father (that he never had). Lin even learns the local language as well as mannerisms just to fit in and be accepted.
Yes to everything you say especially the Rothschild tribe. I still think it is a great book and a great story, however much fictionalised or exaggerated. In over 100 characters you are going to find some stereotypes of all persuasions.
Mother Teresa – now that’s a separate topic altogether. I have seen some pretty dark reports.
Now I'm up to the bear hug, which was the most delightful and unexpected scene. Then Karla shows up in the slum and says poverty looks good on him, and if he slipped any lower he'd be irresistible. Lin has that perfect humility but also doesn't disappoint in doing the right thing, the bold thing that the situation requires. I see why the cheeky Prabaker is your favorite character. His lines are priceless.
Last night I read to the part where Karla kisses him and leaves, and he does the happy dance that the kids peeking through the walls imitate. I decided to stop reading there and savor that moment for a night.
Over mussels in my favorite restaurant in the world, here in my Appalachian town, I read about the Village in the Sky. But then a woman named Doll and a DJ from Belize talked to me, and it turned out his mom, who died when he was 14, was born the same year as me. And that turned into another miracle conversation, with which my life seems to be replete.
So here's what I wanted to tell you. I know we've disagreed about this Jesus guy but Lin is how I imagine the Christ. He sees the good in everyone. He doesn't judge. I think the Christ is the one who sees the Christ in others. Even those who attack him on the road he sees as himself, when he robbed others. He doesn't blame them.
It's how I imagine Judas the Nazarene, who gave a whole country the faith in themselves and each other to stand up to the Romans. If I didn't think the Christ was real, I wouldn't bother arguing with people about Jesus. If you take away the projection of your own goodness onto Jesus, and read what he actually says, could you imagine someone as kind and perceptive as Lin doing the same?
I will keep coming back and putting my impressions here, so we can lure more people into reading this exquisite book. I've noted that he ends each chapter with a crescendo. (I almost put 'of innuendo' and remembered Karla's description of Didier as so shallow he could only manage a single entendre ;-)
The end of Part I, when he talks about the slum 'enfolding his life within its dreams, as gently and completely as a swollen tide closes over a stone that stands upon its shore.'
I love Didier's description that 'When the wish and the fear are the same, we call the dream a nightmare.'
And then Khaderbhai saying, 'Nothing exists as we see it. Nothing we see is reality. Our eyes are liars. Everything that seems real, is merely part of the illusion. Nothing exists as we think it does. Not you. Not me. Not this room. Nothing.'
And after, 'The truth is that there are no good men, or bad men. It is the deeds that have goodness or badness in them ... The truth is that an instant of real love, in the heart of anyone--the noblest man alive or the most wicked--has the whole purpose and process and meaning of life within the lotus-folds of its passion. The truth is that we are all, every one of us, every atom, every galaxy, and every particle of matter in the universe, moving toward God.'
Wow. I knew I would like this from the author photo--I could read his open face like a book. But the music of the language ... that was an ambush.
I’m so glad this book is giving you a pleasurable break from rebuilding empires. When I read it I wasn’t in the habit of having pencil in hand, so thanks for reminding me of those exquisite passages.
I’m sure it won’t spoil anything if I jump ahead to page 480 where Khader repeats that theme:
"The universe," he [Khader] continued, "this universe that we know, began in almost absolute simplicity, and it has been getting more complex for about fifteen billion years. In another billion years it will be still more complex than it is now. In five billion, in ten billion -- it is always getting more complex. It is moving toward...something. It is moving toward some kind of ultimate complexity. We might not get there. An atom of hydrogen might not get there, or a leaf, or a man, or a planet might not get there, to that ultimate complexity. But we are all moving towards it -- everything in the universe is moving towards it. And that final complexity, that thing we are all moving to, is what I choose to call God. If you don't like that word, God, call it the Ultimate Complexity. Whatever you call it, the whole universe is moving toward it."
And at the end of Chapter Thirty-Four (page 739-740):
“The anger in me was as hard and heavy as a basalt hearthstone, and I knew it would take years to wear down, but I couldn’t hate them.”
“They’d lied to me and betrayed me, leaving jagged edges where all my trust had been, and I didn’t like or respect or admire them any more, but still I loved them. I had no choice. I understood that, perfectly, standing in the white wilderness of snow. You can’t kill love. You can’t even kill it with hate. You can kill in-love, and loving, and even loveliness. You can kill them all, or numb them into dense, leaden regret, but you can’t kill love itself. Love is the passionate search for a truth other than your own, and once you feel it, honestly and completely, love is forever. Every act of love, every moment of the heart reaching out, is part of the universal good: it’s part of God, or what we call God, and it can never die.“
I'm glad for the context of these beautiful lines from the book: "Love is the passionate search for a truth other than your own, and once you feel it, honestly and completely, love is forever. Every act of love, every moment of the heart reaching out, is part of the universal good: it’s part of God, or what we call God, and it can never die."
It's what I was trying, in a far more clumsy way, to say with my episode "To love me is to know me." Love isn't a mushy feel-good thing. It's more confrontational than just being nice to someone when you disagree, which is really a hidden way of judging yourself superior to them.
Love sees the other person as an equal, a way of completing you, and is relentless in going after that truth in them. It's the act of reaching out, even just in your mind, to give them the benefit of the doubt. It is God.
Is God the ultimate complexity? Only if the simplicity to complexity continuum is an incomplete circle, not a line. I've thought this about all dichotomies: male/ female, introvert/ extrovert. Somewhere beyond the end point is the place where the extremes meet, which is opposite the 'compromise point' of 'not either, really.'
I love that you're giving me the opportunity to talk about this realm of ideas. And what a great foil to reflect ideas Gregory is! And you are!
Yes, Roberts certainly brings out the best in everyone he encounters.
Innocence – wisdom – failings – virtues - from all parts of the eschatological spectrum.
Thanks for bringing the book and these characters back to life for me in ways I could only feel but not articulate..
I've now gotten to the falling out after 'rescuing' Lisa from the brothel. I was glad that I'd paused to savor that kiss. I think the next moment of innocence may be a long time coming, if it does.
But I like that Roberts gives some resolution to scenes before throwing them all back into turmoil. He doesn't always leave you hanging, like spicy food where you have to take the next bite to quench the fire of the last, but it only gives a momentary reprieve. He allows the reader some relent, but I have a feeling that's all over for awhile. From your hints, there are lice and betrayal in my future! Yikes!
When I was in India some Russian woman gifted me this book and it really blew my mind away! Maybe I should read it again some time
Thanks for that feedback, Vagabond. We need the distraction of quality 'comfort reading' like this from time to time. I enjoyed revisiting the book via the Study Guide (Synopsis and Analysis) and am appreciating Tereza's running feedback.
I opened Shantaram when the plane left the ground. I knew I was in good hands when I saw the Pat Conroy blurb, but I sometimes think he wraps a dire reality in lush language and nudges us toward the cliff. I'd already read the intro, thanks to you, but anyone can write a zinger of a first page (well, not anyone, but you know what I mean.)
So I didn't fully fall in love until the phrase "the umbilical corridor." And then the smell of Bombay, the smell of hope that's the opposite of hate, and the smell of greed that's the opposite of love. The repartee between Lin and Karla, his description of her eyes. The way he changes his way of seeing the people in the slums.
It's just gorgeous. I've thought before that men can't write romance but he's changing my mind. And I have two more hours to Tampa where I will be enraptured and rapt.
Thanks for this recommendation!
Ordered! This is going to seriously hurt my productivity. The first victim was a kabocha squash that roasted to a slight char while I was enraptured by the chapter synopses. But how could I resist? The story line, the lush language, the opening scene with the choice to forgive or hate as freedom in a universe of possibility ... what a line after my own heart.
At least I won't need to pack a library for my upcoming three-week trip. One book will do, since I don't read like a Skoolafish ;-)
"the choice to forgive or hate ..." I was thinking of you when I selected that opening paragraph. I am so glad it resonated with you.
Three weeks!!?? It took me three years to get all the way through after putting it aside at Part Four for a while with other distractions.
Happy comfort reading.
Have to disagree here JS. Having been to India 20 plus times and stayed around the Queen Victoria India arch gates monument wharf and Colloba...most of what this moron writes is autobio-fiction.
His trivialization of and western arrogance to Indian people is breathtaking.
His mocking post colonialist neo artistic colonialist mentality is vacuous at best for he learns nothing from its part Aryan Indian civilization.
I read 80 pages and threw it in the bin for I could feel it was not genuine.
If a bank robber comes out of nowhere and writes a blockbuster then movie follows you gotta ask how n' why.
Well I certainly defer to your experience, G. Nevertheless, I found that Roberts portrayed the (less fortunate) humble native Indian people through Prabaker and his village family in a very positive and heart-warming light. His portrayal of the contrast between the slum dwellers and the opulence of the ritualistic World Trade Centre project was particularly poignant (I could only think of 911). Otherwise, the events and experiences throughout the book were riveting.
There are many terrific thoughtful aphorisms on a wide range of aspects of life – suffering, loyalty, honour, love et cetera.
Maybe there were some subtle/subliminal geopolitical and social messages I did not pick up.
Yes I get that his portrayal of interactions with the poor are portrayed as if he cares. But I sensed that he is merely playing the white western saviour over again. The books targeted at western feel good or the “missionary mentality”.
Like mother Theresa it was a crusade to save the native while portraying Indians as savages, uncaring and unprincipled. And that's not all incorrect, some are. Others are not. Yes life is tough in India but Indians know that from day one. That's why they aren't seen sitting around in the west sipping latte or boozing. They seized wealth if they get a chance sometimes shallowly.
Indian people are very accommodating especially the poorer. The premise that a white man from a land seeded by the most debased, degraded convict unfortunates brutalized by the City of London establishment has any place in India trying to uplift the natives is obscene.
Only Indians can help themselves in the long run if they are to break the caste poverty trap and post monarch capitalist East India company debt corporate / political enslavement and reclaim their agricultural base from Monsanto,Bayer, Brook Bonds, Lipton's etc….it may happen.
How? by decoupling from the IBS banking techno.cartel largely influenced by Rothschild who is, was Dutch then British Easy India Co. Then take back and nationalising their country and preserving their Aryan based culture.
Maybe I'm too hard on the guy and biased but who knows that's my take.
I can’t argue with anything you say here, G. I just don’t see that message coming out in Shantaram. Lin (Roberts) goes there as a broken man, not a saviour; he learns from and is uplifted by the nobility of all the people he meets – Prabaker his best friend, Abdullah his brother and Khader his father (that he never had). Lin even learns the local language as well as mannerisms just to fit in and be accepted.
Yes to everything you say especially the Rothschild tribe. I still think it is a great book and a great story, however much fictionalised or exaggerated. In over 100 characters you are going to find some stereotypes of all persuasions.
Mother Teresa – now that’s a separate topic altogether. I have seen some pretty dark reports.